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Post by IAMCAPER on May 10, 2005 10:04:09 GMT -4
Is vigilante justice warranted or required in Sydney Mines, you be the judge. Here are two samples, keep in mind, these are true stories.
A man suffered a broken leg when he confronted a group of kids who were destroying his fence. The kids threw a brick at the man hitting him in the leg and breaking it. This man was simply trying to protect his property from damage but the group felt the need to direct their attention from the fence to the middle-aged man.
The second story involves another group of kids hanging out at the local coffee shop. When asked to move along by an employee of the shop one girl in the group began a verbal assault on the employee. With this the employee physically "removed" the girl from the premises. The girl cried assault but the police did not buy the story.
Here's the big question, does the Young Offender's Act provide too much protection for youth or is it fine as is?
Should adults be taking more matters into their own hands or should they continue to rely on the law makers and law enforcement to deal with young offender's?
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Post by shopkins on May 10, 2005 11:09:00 GMT -4
In my opinion the Young Offenders Act is way too soft on these kids. If the kids keep getting a slap on the hand they think they can get away with anything without much consequence. The kids these days are more aggressive and disrespectful than in the past. I think if you shock their system right away they would have strong second thoughts about the way they act and think.
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Post by IAMCAPER on May 10, 2005 11:17:31 GMT -4
Well put shopkins! I've personally seen kids tell adults to F-off, among other things, when the adults get after them for doing something wrong. I've also had a kid tell me I couldn't do anything to him because I'd go to jail when I got after him for throwing rocks at my car. I wanted to choke the little bugger but part of me knew he was right, if I retaliated I would be the one in trouble and he would be the victim.
Something really has to be done to discourage these kids. A crack on the behind never killed me and I think these kids need some tough love and a swift kick up the back-side
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Post by shopkins on May 10, 2005 11:25:28 GMT -4
Your exactly right IAMCAPER, even the parents can have a hard time getting after their own kids because all they have to do is yell abuse, and i think there is a difference between abuse and disipline, and if the parents were allowed to disipline their kids, and the kids actually respected their elders it would make a world of difference!
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Post by IAMCAPER on May 10, 2005 11:33:23 GMT -4
Well, you know, the shame of it all is that most of these kids learn their behaviour from their parents and if the parents hear about what their kids are doing, they could care less. In a number of cases the parents are only having kids so that they can collect a bigger cheque from the government. Now, before anybody jumps on me I'll say I have no problem with families being on assistance but if you're going to have kids you should be responsible for them which means if your kids are misbehaving you should discipline them. I would be so embarrassed and upset if my daughter behaved the way a lot of these kids do. I love her to death but she will never get away with the things most of these kids do. She'll be wishing the cops took her to jail.
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Post by cbisle on May 11, 2005 18:28:06 GMT -4
I totally agree that kids are learning this behavior from their home environment. I think the one thing these young people need is to know that their is a different life than the one they are use to. Because to be honest, a lot of these kids only know one life, and that's violence, drugs, and poverty. Now I'm not saying that all of these apply to all kids. But I guarantee that at least one them apply. I think that Cape Breton needs more outreach programming for young people. There are so many things in life that we can easily take for granted. For example, socializing; to us, socializing may be so easy, but for some of these kids it's the most frightening thing. Programs that can prepare kids for the realities of life is a must in Cape Breton and many other parts of the province. But until these kids see this other side of life, the positive and more productive side, nothing will ever change.
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Post by IAMCAPER on May 12, 2005 8:27:19 GMT -4
Very well put cbisle, you would swear you helped kids before. The schools are at least trying to help the elementary children with a program called Roots of Empathy. We have our 7 month old, Sasha, as a part of this program and what we do is go to a classroom and the kids sit around us and ask us questions. We have different topics for each visit such as feelings, sleeping, eating, playing, and such. It's geared at curbing bullying and I think more programs like this are needed.
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Post by IAMCAPER on May 12, 2005 8:28:59 GMT -4
An update on this thread:
The neighbour of the older man who was injured by the teens went to the Junior High School to approach the kids but he was picked up by police. I'll give more info as I get it.
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Post by rontu88 on May 12, 2005 9:06:59 GMT -4
I myself who went through the Young Offender System totally agree on the how disrespectful many youths can be towards anything in society, as I truly dislike the person I was back at that time. But things in life allowed me to become a better person and move on. As there can be many excuses for these kids to do such acts and I know that sometimes enough is enough, we do have to realize why this is happening truely. For one children aren't born bad, children are like dry sponges and learn these ways but at the same time take them to another level. Generally speaking (and I would take the blame for anyhting my children do) the parents in almost all normal cases groom their children to what their personality is. I know there's freak cases but in general we as parents do the damage and it's done when we don't even realize it, like early ages under 5yrs. Having said that a childs cry for help by doing bad things isn't just from being taught a certain complex, at the same time lack of acknowledgement, praise, ability, and most important LOVE can also turn a child mad. Now I'm not saying that all these parents are bad people but as shown above lack there of can be just as damaging as teaching the wrong things. This I know from experience. OK enough picking up for the children (HEH) Now there always comes a time in life when it's time for a person to jump out of their skin and start pointing fingers at themselves and oweing up to their own responsibilies. When your 16 it's very feasable and acceptable to blame your parents if there's good cause. BUT, when these teens start rolling into their 20's they aren't babies anymore and this is where they have to shovel the past out of the way while knowing right from wrong and whats most important in life to be a good person. At the same time you can't go through life always blaming your parents for your present day character because they did only what they knew best at the time and most kids done worse than their parents...... Yes I agree the Youth Act is too soft, but not just for sentencing and restrictions, the Act needs more than this it needs programs to make these kids realize the important things in life and teach them to deal with things they never were taught how to. And the parents MUST change, they must realize that their conduct is the major contributer to this youth gone wild. And I don't blame TV, Music, Video Games, etc etc.... It's all about LOVE and RESPECT. Communities must gear towards our children, afterall they are the future.
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Post by shopkins on May 12, 2005 9:10:30 GMT -4
I do agree that some of these kids are learning their behaviour from their parents, but is this because their parents maybe were too young to be starting a family in the first place, and didn't have the skills to be a good parent, to show and teach their kids right from wrong and guide them through life, because there is way too many babys having babys. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making excuses for these parents, I think parents should be responsible for their kids at all times and maybe holding the parent somewhat responsible for their childs actions is needed in the justice system as well. And yes there needs to be more programs for kids and families to participate in to keep them off the streets and do something productive with their lives.
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Post by rontu88 on May 12, 2005 9:17:19 GMT -4
Excactly, which in turns leans back the their parents not teaching them the values of a sexual relationship at a young age nor the smarts to use proper protection. But where does the blame end? I think the easiest area for the buck to stop rolling is when that child isn't a child anymore... like I said earlier.... Chicken or the Egg? heh.... When it comes down to who, what, where, when, why, it's all about these kids growing up!! ---> With a little guidance. God please forgive me......
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Post by rontu88 on May 12, 2005 9:40:16 GMT -4
One thing I must add, I am a true believer in an eye for an eye. As bad as it could be at times poeple have and need the right to protect their properties and their own physical health and their families, no matter what the situation. I'm just glad I was never involved in such a situation nor do I want to be, but if it happens then so be it. That's another thing some people need to realize and accept, you can't go crying to the law when you diserve it.
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Post by IAMCAPER on May 12, 2005 11:52:34 GMT -4
I think we're on our way to a great thread here!
Rontu, I've seen a lot of people start out life as bullies and thugs, and they completely turned their lives around with some help from somebody, whether it be a friend, a family member, or the law.
I think most of us here are about the same age so we're probably alike in that we had respect for our elders regardless of how we treated people our own age. Myself, if I was scolded by an adult I took it serious because I knew I did something wrong and if my parents found out I would be in for a wallup. Nowaday's we hear the media and so called experts saying that "spanking is wrong, we need to talk to our kids" or "put your kids in a time-out," blah, blah, blah. I think this will work for some things but if a kid does something really bad, a time-out isn't going to do anything. Besides, if a child doesn't have respect for adults a time-out or a "chat" isn't going to do anything. I'm not saying we should beat our children because, quite frankly, I don't know if I could ever spank my daughter. But, we have to somehow teach our kids that there are consequences to their actions.
A big thing I see is parents not showing respect to their own kids which makes me think, how can the children show respect to anybody else if their own parents don't respect them. While not all situations are the same this goes back to what Rontu said, "children learn their behaviour from others".
We need to put the remote down, turn off the computer, hide the cell phone, and spend time with our children. We need to take them outside so they can play with other children; we need to take them places and teach them positive lessons, help them experience positive and uplifting events. They need to be nurtured and cared for. If we are pro-active and not re-active it will make a huge difference in the lives of the children.
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Post by cbisle on May 12, 2005 18:03:20 GMT -4
Here's the most recent information about this particular incident.
Accused vigilante out on bail
SYDNEY, N.S. – A 62-year-old man from Sydney Mines has been released from jail after spending two nights behind bars for allegedly taking the law into his own hands.
James Francis Walters was released Thursday morning on several conditions, which effectively put him under house arrest until his next court appearance June 28.
If Walters leaves his home for any court-permitted activity, he must be accompanied by his wife. He was also ordered to see his doctor right away to check on some medication he began taking recently.
Walters was arrested outside the local junior high school Tuesday for allegedly confronting a group of teenagers he believes vandalized a fence and attacked his neighbour last weekend.
He faces three counts of uttering threats, and one count each of possessing a weapon and assault.
News Courtesy: CBC
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Post by cbisle on May 12, 2005 18:26:23 GMT -4
One thing I do think is that the police are going to lose full control if something isn't done soon. Fewer and fewer people respect the law nowadays and the numbers will only continue to dwindle.
I agree with you rontu88 that at some point you have to grow up and be civilized. I also think that there has to be an incentive for changing. People often say that you can't change if you don't want to. Well, I agree with that 100%. Unless there is a reason to try it won't happen. It's helping these young people find the right reason that is difficult right now. Again, I think it comes back to the community and programs that can introduce young people to a positive lifestyle. I've seen it work first hand with myself. I've also seen it work with other young people who many had given up on. I also think that all it takes is for one young person to experience this and many young people will be affected, in a positive way.
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